votp
Steaming Bovril
Posts: 328
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Post by votp on Dec 17, 2008 13:11:03 GMT
I once had an argument with a carnivore who said that he needed something that looked like a bit of an animal on his plate. I wondered where the sausage fitted into the philosophy. You may well be right about veggies yearning meat but some have the willpower not to corrupt their powerful moral stance ;D
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Post by ojiveojive on Dec 20, 2008 18:47:26 GMT
Veggies only like it because it tastes a bit like meat. After all, all veggies secretly yearn for meat anyway, it's obvious the way they try to make most of their food look like meat! Vegetarian bacon - what's that all about? If you want feckin' bacon, buy bacon, it's lovely. As probably the oldest vegetarian on this site I must take exception to the outrageous stereotyping of vegetarians, after all are all black men hugely endowed? Are all women secret lesbians? These are myths that are propogated mainly by meat eating men. 1. I don't like Marmite. 2. I do not secretly crave or yearn for meat - the only meat I crave to eat is my wife's pussy. 3. Most of my food doesn't look like meat, it looks like vegetables. 4. Vegetarian bacon looks nothing like dead pig, nor does it taste like it - ask any pig muncher. 5. The serious bit. Eating meat is bad for the environment, rain forests and native habitats destroyed to provide space for animals bred for food productiuon, bad for people, meat intensively produced affects the metabolism's ability to assimilate antibiotics due to the over medication of the animals and processed meat products are believed to be a major cause of illnesses including cancer, helps to maintain food poverty and starvation as it takes approximately ten times more grain to feed animals for food as it does to provide non-meat food for humans. 6. The eating of meat by human omnivores is often regarded as being normal whereas any study of the history of the human diet shows that meat was a rare commodity for the majority of human population, all but the aristocratic minority, until the last century when the mechanisation of the food supply chain made it possible for the general public to buy rather than breed meat. Even I can remember chicken being a 'treat' in the 1950s and only available at Christmas, (turkeys didn't become readily available to the common man until the 1960s) and a joint of meat was a Sunday treat with the leftovers being used for sandwiches to sustain my factory working father during the week, bones being used for stock and dripping on sandwiches for us kids.
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Post by J Esaj PRA on Dec 22, 2008 18:26:55 GMT
Do you serious believe all that rubbish, ojive? Perhaps your vegetarian diet is leaving you nutritionally and mentally deficient. Sure, there are elements of truth in points 5 and 6, but it isn't the complete picture. To present those distorted little bits of 'information' (more accurately described as propaganda, IMO) as facts is ridiculous. You sound like a religious nutter. Eating meat does not have a direct impact on rain forest destruction. At worst it has an indirect impact, but it is more of a general food production issue and poor management of resources. Eating meat does not have any impact you your ability to "assimilate antibiotics". This is pseudo-science - the whole "affects the metabolism's ability to assimilate antibiotics" bit is meaningless! "...processed meat products are believed to be a major cause of illnesses including cancer..." Wow. No sh it. If you burn your toast you'll convert it in to a known carcinogen. Badly kept and 'stressed' vegetables produce some of the most toxic substances know to man. You might get hit by a bus when crossing a road. Yes, meat production consumes far more resources than non-meat food sources. That does not prove a direct link to 'food poverty' - that seems to be driven by other factors. It's not the meat, just people's greed. "The eating of meat by human omnivores is often regarded as being normal..." That's because it is normal. Check out the definition of omnivore in the dictionary. Thanks for the history of the last few thousand years, but I'd rather believe the evolutionary evidence of several hundred thousand years. Our teeth are designed for eating a wide range of foods, including all forms of flesh. There are debatable issues around all of the points above - I'll be happy to return to them in January if you want. In the meantime, you enjoy your nut roast and I'll enjoy my turkey. ;D
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Post by ojiveojive on Jan 21, 2009 11:31:22 GMT
All the debateable points I raised are covered in this report: tinyurl.com/9g7lo3 no rubbish, no pseudo science, just facts from official sources. Once you've read the report I'd be happy to debate its content with you. A couple of examples: The area of rainforest destroyed for meat and/or soya production for animal feed in the last twelve years is equivalent to the amount of land need to supply animal feed due to the shortfall encountered when animal by-products were banned from animal feedstuffs after the outbreak of BSE in 1996. The average consumption of meat products in India in 2002 - 2kg per person per annum, the average consumption of meat products in the UK per person per annum in 2002 - 80kg per person. The amount of soya production needed to feed meat and dairy animals for human consumption in the UK - 55.5kg per person per annum, and as they haven't taken us veggies out of the equation you could probably add ten percent to that figure then multiply it by 50 million to find out how much soya our little island consumes, let's say roughly 3 million tonnes fed to animals to feed to humans. You can feed an awful lot more people on 3 million tonnes of soya (or better still indigenous crops) than can be fed on the animals that consume all that soya . Around the world, meat consumption correlates to income, higher disposable income leads to higher meat consumption.
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Post by robotsmfc on Jan 21, 2009 21:33:12 GMT
One thing worth mentioning is that I've never met a fat vegetarian.
It doesn't mean that there aren't any out there, but in terms of keeping to a healthy weight and the knock-on effect on the heart and other organs vegetarianism seems to be a good option.
Of course, it must be remembered that the obesity situation is more complex that just an issue of eating lots of meat or none at all, though, as meat consumption is one of many factors.
The main problem we currently have is the way in which meat is used in our foods - an which "meat" is used (e.g. "connective tissue").
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