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Post by ojiveojive on Jul 17, 2008 16:32:03 GMT
Would that mean Manchester United and Chelseas starting this season with about -600 points? I'm all for it then. You read my mind, Coops ;D. Giggy, the actual victims are the creditors, the fans are unsecured (or insecure) bystanders! Yes they have a lot of emotional investment but get what they pay for at the turnstile, they would be victims if the club went belly up during the season and they had purchased a season ticket but a small business owed tens of thousands of pounds may have to fold, resulting in job losses and all that that entails for those thrown out of work. If the club re-forms under a new or similar name the fans can move on, unpaid creditors may not be able to.
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Post by J esaj PRA on Jul 18, 2008 13:09:30 GMT
How do you work that out Giggy? Are you on crack?
The only way to discourage clubs spending money they don't have is severe punishments for those that break the rules. At present, the worst that happens to a club is they drop a few leagues and slightly change their name. In return, they can wipe out a load of debt while keeping the history and facilities they obtained whilst 'cheating'. The new club is financially secure, can often afford to keep the old players and attracts the same crowds. With a decent team and fan base, they can utilise their new facilities and rapidly regain their previous place in the pyramid.
In the meantime, all the clubs that play by the rules struggle on, desperately trying to keep their facilities up to the minimum standard, struggling to attract players, underperforming and not attracting fans.
It stinks. It needs to be stopped.
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Post by coops on Jul 18, 2008 19:16:03 GMT
No disrespect ro AFC Telford though eh Jase! <winky thing>
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Post by Giggy of Telford on Jul 18, 2008 23:01:14 GMT
Doesn't make any odds to the person who mismanages the club what happens to the club after thigns go wrong. They've jumped ship and taken up a new hobbie away from 'running' a football club. Punishing the people left who then try picking up the pieces doesn't help anyone. Particularly in the cases where the club doesn't have any assets to pay the creditors anyway.
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Post by medibot on Jul 19, 2008 0:04:37 GMT
Incidentally, i'm still not quite sure how Luton think they've been hard done by.
The deduction is as per the rules and is very clear and if they didn't like the rules before then they could have challenged them.
Of course until it fucks you up all these rules go unchallenged and unnoticed although you would have thought in their previous financial troubles somebody might have noticed...
Until somebody proposes rule changes and gets them passed the current rules should stand with as much conviction as three points for a win or relegation.
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Post by ambersalamander on Jul 19, 2008 19:20:49 GMT
Unfortunately Giggy, it's the company that's being punished, not its management.
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Post by amberaleman on Jul 19, 2008 20:55:32 GMT
It's a long-established business principle that if you take over a company you assume responsibility for its assets AND liabilities.
If you don't fancy taking on the latter, you can always start up a completely new company in place of the old one. In a footballing context, that will generally mean re-starting at a lower level. It seems to have worked (eventually) for Aldershot.
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Post by J Esaj prA on Jul 21, 2008 13:03:33 GMT
No disrespect ro AFC Telford though eh Jase! <winky thing> Telford is a slightly odd situation, in that the football club didn't get into financial difficulties at all. Unfortunately, the clown that owned them botched his other companies up and Telford got caught up in the mess. They did choose a rubbish name though, although the 'blame' for that probably lies with Wimbledon! It's the likes of AFC United Borough of Nuneaton (or whatever they called themselves) that need their collective ballbags kicking. With the current situation at TFC, where no ground development will mean years (or even decades) of stagnation, the club should just build a new £20 million stadium, go bust, reform two leagues lower as AFCTFC and we'll be back where we are now by 2012 with facilities on a par with Manchester United! Where is the incentive in the current rules for TFC not to do that? BTW, do you think that using a prefix of AFC was originally chosen because some idiot thought it'd put their team at the top of the league at the start of every season? How retarded is that? First of all, league tables should never be alphabetically sorted. Secondly, AFC is a prefix and should treated in the same way as the suffix FC, i.e. ignored when generating alphabetical lists. It really does irritate me to see the Conference North table on most websites with 'AFC Telford' at the top - it should be Telford United and their position in the table should be chosen at random, preferably being different every time it is viewed. Now, can someone point me in the direction of Data Junkies Anonymous?
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Post by Giggy of Telford on Jul 21, 2008 16:58:00 GMT
I can see your point, however I would rather a system which punished the bad chairman for his stupidity rather than the club. However some would argue they were unlucky rather than incompetant, though I guess a review of finances would show whether or not they had acted irresponsibly. Also in the cases of the particularly bad ones who lose their own money in the process you're not going to get any more out of them than you would a club with no cash or assets. Regarding the name AFCTU that was not the supporters' trust's first choice, originally opting for Telford United AFC. However this was seen as too similar to the original name so the AFC had to be a prefix. Meanwhile Telford Town sounded silly due to the alliteration while Telford city was innaccurate. Wellington Town was considere as it was a previous name of TUFC, however was unavailable as another club have taken it on, it was also considered to be turnign away from fans from other parts of Telford. In a couple of years time we would have the opportunity to return to the old name (TUFC) once the embargo on that name is cleared apparently. There are mixed views between the fans as to whether we should. Can't even blame that on anything I come out with I'm afraid, never so much as touched a regular cigarette (let alone drugs) and don't even drink.....though some would argue the lastpoint was actually part of the problem.
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Post by ambersalamander on Jul 21, 2008 17:42:46 GMT
You know, Jase, I actually agree with you re: the AFC thing. I've always thought it should be treated in the same way as FC as well. However, maybe it is. If the FC is at the end of the team's name, then it is hardly of monumental importance in an alphabetical list, is it? Either way, a) maybe the "AFC" should be put in brackets, and b) IT DOESN'T BLOOMIN' WELL MATTER WHO'S FIRST ALPHABETICALLY!
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Post by coops on Jul 21, 2008 19:59:40 GMT
There are literally hundreds of suffixes you could have used Giggy (not that it was up to you of course!), Albion, Rangers, Olympic, Wanderers, Phoenix (there's a good one!), let's face it, AFC was chosen because for some reason it's the in-thing to prefix all new names with FC or AFC.
I blame Wimbledon, the rest of you are just band-wagon jumpers.
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Post by J Esaj PRA on Jul 22, 2008 12:13:31 GMT
Hmmm, tangent forming...
If you sort your music collection and do a good job of it, you ignore the initial 'The' in a band name so that 'Jam, The' comes before 'Testament' in an alphabetical listing. The same should apply to AFC and FC - the FC in most club names is hardly ever referenced by anyone, but these AFC-prefixed clubs seem to make a big deal out of it. If people sorted their league tables correctly, it wouldn't have any impact.
Anyway, back to cheating scumbag re-formed (the hyphen is important) clubs! ;D
Luton have been a disaster zone since some time in the 80s at least, so why not let them pass away? If the people of Luton are bothered, they can form a new club at the bottom of the pyramid.
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Post by Sultan of Cannock- SRFC on Jul 26, 2008 7:50:06 GMT
Hmmm, tangent forming... If you sort your music collection and do a good job of it, you ignore the initial 'The' in a band name so that 'Jam, The' comes before 'Testament' in an alphabetical listing. The same should apply to AFC and FC - the FC in most club names is hardly ever referenced by anyone, but these AFC-prefixed clubs seem to make a big deal out of it. If people sorted their league tables correctly, it wouldn't have any impact. whimper!
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Post by Roscoe, TFFN Reporter (Ret) on Jul 26, 2008 8:14:29 GMT
With the current situation at TFC, where no ground development will mean years (or even decades) of stagnation, the club should just build a new £20 million stadium, go bust, reform two leagues lower as AFCTFC and we'll be back where we are now by 2012 with facilities on a par with Manchester United! Where is the incentive in the current rules for TFC not to do that? I can relate to the pain of Teeny Tiny Tamworth's travails facing up to minging moribund mediocrity as a similar fate has befallen my team, the slumbering SRFC supergiants. In the late 90's / early noughties we repaid something like £400k worth of debt, while taking a double relegation the "proper" way, ie having to put up with the humilition of continued defeat on the field of play. The ground, which once proudly hosted FA representative matches and the first semi-pro international tournement final, was just left to decay. At various times, we have had to endure the closure of our "Shed End" and stand in sand at the Astonfields End for some years. The board have tried their best to build it all back up again within the parameters of their financial and cerebral limitations. Hence we have to bear now the badge of "Scaffold Rangers" with our ugly temporary stands. And to think that with the stroke of a pen and the spilling of some red ink, we could be where we are now but housed in a smart Marston Road or even a brand-spanking new Roy Chapman Arena instead of going through all that. As my Dad used to say " G' to bloody 'ell!" At least our crap is honest crap and hopefully the Buddha will smile down upon us and tell us that our bad karma has been repaid.
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