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Post by ambersalamander on Nov 7, 2008 13:58:19 GMT
Wow. A civilised religious debate ;D
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Post by thevicar on Nov 10, 2008 12:14:40 GMT
thevicar: I must bow to your superior knowledge of the issue. I would reiterate though that I find it slightly condescending to attribute the value of the religious days of other religions as roughly equal to devil worship. I know you weren't doing that yourself but it does appear to be the greater implication of what you're saying. robot, I think the fault of mine lies in my initial post, I should have been clearer about who treats Hallowe'en as equivalent to devil worship (i.e. the right wing types who form the Evangelical Alliance and similar organisations). Whilst I don't think Samhain is equivalent to All Hallows eve, I try to keep the two seperate in word so as to avoid confusion (much like the Roman Catholic Church and the church catholic) but like everyone else, I screw up occasionally. Sadly the church is large enough that its fringes quite often cause enough noise and look odd enough to the press to get more attention than they deserve (whilst the middle ground gets none).
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Post by robotsmfc on Nov 10, 2008 16:45:37 GMT
You're right about the fringes, unfortunately too many people take what they say as representative of all religion. I suppose it works almost as a perverse justification for all of the wishy-washy agnostic anglicans in this country, who point to the extremes of religion as an excuse not to go to their church but refuse to put in the extra effort to declare themselves atheist and be done with it.
I did ask my friend in the end what it was all about, even though she is a neo pagan and it's no longer the subject of the debate, and she said something about scaring away evil spirits, bonfires and harvests.
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Post by thevicar on Nov 10, 2008 19:06:42 GMT
Damn this scary agreement and civility (I'm with you on the lipservice 'anglicans'), we must find something controversial or else we'll confuse those people who think that all religious debates are between frothing fundamentalists and die hard atheist attack dogs. Anyone know a buddhist we can pick on?
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Post by ambersalamander on Nov 10, 2008 22:40:57 GMT
I know some, but you can't have them.
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votp
Steaming Bovril
Posts: 328
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Post by votp on Nov 11, 2008 0:31:40 GMT
OK Vicar, I'll get back to basics. Its all pants. Christianity, Judaism, Paganism, Muslimism, Religionism. The extremes are just the proclamations of what the centralists really think. I am not exactly die-hard atheist but am not far off. I did once think of myself as that but ameliorated somewhat although I am thinking of re-considering.
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Post by medibot on Nov 11, 2008 0:41:57 GMT
Good word! Nothing else to add really
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Post by ambersalamander on Nov 11, 2008 11:20:35 GMT
I've avoided getting into religious debates since last New Year's Eve when I ended up nose-to-nose in a screaming row with my beloved about my perceived lack of respect for his religious beliefs I mean, I say "perceived"...
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Post by thevicar on Nov 11, 2008 15:59:51 GMT
OK Vicar, I'll get back to basics. Its all pants. Christianity, Judaism, Paganism, Muslimism, Religionism. The extremes are just the proclamations of what the centralists really think. I am not exactly die-hard atheist but am not far off. I did once think of myself as that but ameliorated somewhat although I am thinking of re-considering. Good to see some things don't change Frankly, I tend not to get upset by people mocking my religion (I'm quite good at doing that myself) but do get mildly irate with those who so from a position of ignorance - I tend to prefer people to find out what they are mocking and understand why they want to mock it before they start. Similarly, I am quite happy to have a reasoned debate about religion when both sides accept their ignorance of various areas (my knowledge of Islam, for example, is woeful) but try to understand the other point(s) of view. The flip side is I get quite annoyed when any argument descends into a construction and destruction of opposing strawmen - you don't learn anything new and mostly it gets boring quickly. As to the argument that what the extremist professes, the centralist thinks, I can only say I disagree based on experience. I do not think that many centralists believe the extreme interpretations of religious texts / creeds / dogmas etc are correct and many would go so far as to consider those espousing such views as outside of their religion. How do we define the limits of a religion. Am I truly a Christian if my church is not in communion with the see of Peter? I certainly differ in my thinking from the beliefs of mainstream Catholicism or Orthodoxy (being both catholic and reformed) but I am given the same generic title as any who profess to be part of those groups.
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Post by robotsmfc on Nov 12, 2008 20:32:29 GMT
OK Vicar, I'll get back to basics. Its all pants. Christianity, Judaism, Paganism, Muslimism, Religionism. The extremes are just the proclamations of what the centralists really think. I am not exactly die-hard atheist but am not far off. I did once think of myself as that but ameliorated somewhat although I am thinking of re-considering. Are you Andrew Copson in disguise?
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votp
Steaming Bovril
Posts: 328
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Post by votp on Nov 12, 2008 23:01:27 GMT
Good grief, No. Although I do bear a slight resemblance to Bob Churchill, his colleague.
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Post by robotsmfc on Nov 12, 2008 23:40:25 GMT
I wonder what the British Humanist Association actually get up to and what their membership levels are?
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Post by thevicar on Nov 13, 2008 9:35:32 GMT
I think they're a lobbying and campaigning organisation mostly, like the National Secular Society. I've spoken in formal debates with people from both of those organisations - normally quite fun. votp - just 'cos you've got a beard doesn't mean you look like everyone with a beard
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Post by Giggy of Telford on Nov 13, 2008 16:30:04 GMT
votp - just 'cos you've got a beard doesn't mean you look like everyone with a beard
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Post by ambersalamander on Nov 13, 2008 17:10:46 GMT
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