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Post by ambersalamander on Oct 25, 2008 18:42:53 GMT
...would you find an article like this The same website also has an article entitled: "Violent crime down but Sutton MP says there's more to be done." I dread to think what he's up to... |
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Post by DazaB_WCFC on Oct 27, 2008 1:26:32 GMT
Can I borrow it?
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Post by DazaB_WCFC on Oct 27, 2008 1:27:48 GMT
That's brilliant ;D
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Post by thevicar on Oct 28, 2008 14:41:45 GMT
Can I cry bollocks at this point?
The guy is meant to be some sort of mad christian right? Well the general mad christian doesn't think encouraging trick or treating (under the auspices of witches, ghost ad general dark powers) is, in fact, a good thing. People will think you're a devil worshipper because of a car? Maybe not taking part in the pagan festival celebrating the darker side of existence would help avoid that association too.
Only in the local bloody Guardian.
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Post by robotsmfc on Oct 31, 2008 19:14:31 GMT
I take it that by extension you must believe that paganism is associated with witchcraft and celebrating the 'darker side of existence'?
That simply isn't the case, and I'll make sure I ask my pagan friend what the best way of describing hallowe'en actually is next time I see her. She hates the American hijack of the event into its current guise as it's a far cry from what the celebration is really meant to be, so I'll report back with what significance she attributes to it.
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Post by coops on Oct 31, 2008 22:48:22 GMT
Isn't Halloween actually a Celtic harvest festival?
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Post by robotsmfc on Nov 2, 2008 13:04:10 GMT
It might be, seems like the right time of year and the Celts were polytheistic and would have gone in for a bit of dressing up as spirits.
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Post by ambersalamander on Nov 3, 2008 17:50:31 GMT
According to Wikipedia, you're right. It says that the Celts believed that on what was later known as All Hallows' Eve or Hallowe'en, "the boundary between the living and the dead dissolved, and the dead become dangerous for the living by causing problems such as sickness or damaged crops." People apparently dressed up to mimic or placate the evil spirits. I wonder what Mr Devil-Car would make of that.
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Post by robotsmfc on Nov 3, 2008 22:00:58 GMT
Maybe he's a Celtic tribesman?
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Post by thevicar on Nov 4, 2008 11:10:07 GMT
Meh, why let facts get in the way of a good rant sez I.
[boring rant]
robotsmfc:
Some sort of pagan / celtic / we're not actually sure but we'll steal it and claim it as our own in a neo pagan revival and revisioning of history festival in autumn as the nights draw in. Generally assumed by the academic community to have had elements of a celebration of the stored harvest and some form of bargaining or placating of the spirits of the night / dark as the evening lengthened. No one is entirely sure of the date (certainly I've seen end of Sept through to mid Nov suggested). The name Samhain, which is usually given. derives from ancient Irish Gaelic but there are various variants in use round the former Celtic heartlands. There are similar festivals (with similar celebration / bargaining) in other areas of northern Europe as well.
Around 835 A.D. All Hallows and All Souls day are moved from May (26th if I remember aright) to November 1st. In the next 100 or so years the two traditions appear to have fused to All Hallows E'en and All Hallows, with All Souls picking up on 2nd November. That is All Hallows, with the celebration of the beatified during 1st November day, the Vigil of All Hallows (All Hallows E'en) during the night of 1/11 and the comemmoration of the faithful departed (All Souls) on 2nd.
As it goes, I don't think neo paganism is the same as paganism (go on ask your friend about what archaeology tells us about Druidic ritual they tend to get as pissy as some Christians do when you start questioning the origins of the biblical texts). Equally I am fairly well aware of what the more 'standard' neo pagan viewpoints are, indeed enough to realise that their certainly is no cohesion in those viewpoints from one follower to the next.
But...
Neo paganism is/has tried to claim its roots in a pre christian / celtic structure of power that appears to have been radically different from the line that much neo pagan literature spins. In doing so it leaves itself open to attack on these lines (probably unfairly) in the same way that all religions have to reconcile the activities of their foundational histories / myths with both their self image and current activities.
What particular strand you choose to ascribe to within the neopagan is really immaterial (be it wicca, 'pagan', druidic whatever) if you claim a link back to the original then you have to accept and explain how you reconcile the original to your current viewpoint. Claiming the history merely to change it looks like a cop out to me.
[/boring rant]
More to the point, the glorious loon in the article was complaining that a car with dark overtones of 'satan worship' was parked outside his house. In the same sentence he brought in the idea of trick or treating which, historically, is a bargaining with evil spirits (and thus linked in the Christian viewpoint with Satan as evil is pretty much = to satan). Thus I cry bollocks because the man is claiming his christianity to demand someone is forced to stop doing something legal (parking a car in the street) to help pople do something that is now considered by the majority of christian theory / doctrine / belief(?) to be anathema.
Just bloody silly.
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Post by ambersalamander on Nov 4, 2008 12:22:49 GMT
But, dear Vicar, surely the whole point of the article was that the fellow concerned is as loopy as a Fruit Polo?
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Post by thevicar on Nov 4, 2008 15:55:42 GMT
Yep, and my point is that the local Guardian had not the wit to see the irony and mock him appropriately. Useless.
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Post by Giggy of Telford on Nov 4, 2008 17:08:53 GMT
On a completely unrelated note Sewersbury Town FC have banned their Shropshire Star correspondant from their gorund and from talking to their players/staff. This has happened because an article was released stating they had ejected a lot of people this season, often for refusing to sit down. www.shropshirestar.com/2008/10/28/star-man-banned-from-prostar/ |
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Post by ambersalamander on Nov 4, 2008 22:46:43 GMT
Yep, and my point is that the local Guardian had not the wit to see the irony and mock him appropriately. Useless. And if he can make that much of a fuss about a legally parked car, imagine what he'd do to the newspaper! |
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Post by robotsmfc on Nov 5, 2008 20:20:10 GMT
thevicar:
I must bow to your superior knowledge of the issue. I would reiterate though that I find it slightly condescending to attribute the value of the religious days of other religions as roughly equal to devil worship. I know you weren't doing that yourself but it does appear to be the greater implication of what you're saying.
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