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Post by Sultan of Cannock- SRFC on May 2, 2011 10:27:01 GMT
I've had the rolling news programme about the death of Osama Bin Laden on the World Service to the extent that they're now repeating stuff and i've finally switched it off. They did NOT however repeat this comment, originally broadcast live, from an American woman at Ground Zero in New York who said; "Well, we don't have a Royal Wedding, but we've got this."  The mind boggles.  |
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Post by ambersalamander on May 2, 2011 20:10:47 GMT
I too was watching that this morning, and I switched off in disgust at the scenes of utter jubilation in the USA: people jumping up and down shrieking in delight and waving banners, and generally gloating. OK, bin Laden may have caused or contributed to the deaths, serious injuries and psychological damage of many thousands of people, but what sort of people celebrate like that because someone has died? It's not as if he was an all-powerful tyrant who had oppressed these same people for decades and now he's dead revolution will occur, is it? After all, how many have suffered the same or worse on the "other side"? In the grand scheme of things, I don't really see how the death of this one person is going to significantly change anything. Not that I'm exactly mourning his loss, I just see nothing to celebrate.
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Post by amberaleman on May 2, 2011 21:21:05 GMT
^^WSS^^
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Post by Jared on May 5, 2011 11:50:55 GMT
I too was watching that this morning, and I switched off in disgust at the scenes of utter jubilation in the USA: people jumping up and down shrieking in delight and waving banners, and generally gloating. OK, bin Laden may have caused or contributed to the deaths, serious injuries and psychological damage of many thousands of people, but what sort of people celebrate like that because someone has died? It's not as if he was an all-powerful tyrant who had oppressed these same people for decades and now he's dead revolution will occur, is it? After all, how many have suffered the same or worse on the "other side"? In the grand scheme of things, I don't really see how the death of this one person is going to significantly change anything. Not that I'm exactly mourning his loss, I just see nothing to celebrate. I agree 100% with everything you've written. I'm literally sickend by some of the things I've seen in terms of people celebrating. It's sickening. |
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Post by frankiegth on May 11, 2011 17:40:25 GMT
The Americans as a race are generally not given to diplomatic restraint and the reaction to OBL's death suprises me not.
I'm no royalist, but to compare the death of an international terrorist/criminal to the royal wedding is almost treasonable.
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Post by Col ISIHAC. on May 19, 2011 18:46:09 GMT
I have friends across the pond; and try ever so hard to avoid stereotyping or making jokes about how the inbred offspring of Uncle Sam are perceived around the world - but really they DO make it so hard for me not to! As a nation - not a race; a nation, it's scary just how widespread the ignorance and overwhelming pomposity of the inhabitants of this continent can appear to the rest of the world. Let he who is without sin... From the land of glass houses.   |
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Post by ambersalamander on May 20, 2011 11:31:27 GMT
I have friends across the pond; and try ever so hard to avoid stereotyping or making jokes about how the inbred offspring of Uncle Sam are perceived around the world - but really they DO make it so hard for me not to! It's annoying, isn't it? You try to hard to be a nice person and not stereotype...One stereotype about the Americans that I have always found hard to shake off is that they have an overwhelming tendency to buy into all the propaganda about their home nation fed to them by its leaders, and therefore any criticism of their beloved country tends to lead to argument: it's not easy to have any sort of reasoned debate. Many Americans have this belief that the US is the best of all countries and can do no wrong, but when this belief is tested, become upset. It's a lot like a religious belief in a way. I know this is a stereotype and not all Americans are like this. I try so hard not to let stereotypes influence my thinking. Yet this very thing happened last time I met an American; admittedly we were all rather drunk (Amber Aleman was there  ) and said American got up and stormed away from the table rather than hear British people (politely) offer their critical opinions on her country's policies. This annoys me, because I hate stereotypes. |
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Post by medibot on May 23, 2011 1:58:33 GMT
I was thinking about this whilst watching the latest Louis Theroux documentary earlier this evening, it's about their jail/prison system and you can't believe a civilised country would let that sort of thing go on but it does and it's well publicised and yet you meet an American and they still think it's the best country in the world.
The little bit of it that they're from might be lovely but as a nation it stinks of hypocrisy, double standards and over inflated egos.
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Post by amberaleman on May 23, 2011 11:37:14 GMT
Many Americans struggle to understand irony and nuance (though some of their comedians and film-makers do those very well). This may have something to do with a tradition of good ol' plain speaking (like in the Bible).
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Post by ambersalamander on May 23, 2011 11:42:34 GMT
I was thinking about this whilst watching the latest Louis Theroux documentary earlier this evening, it's about their jail/prison system and you can't believe a civilised country would let that sort of thing go on but it does and it's well publicised and yet you meet an American and they still think it's the best country in the world. The little bit of it that they're from might be lovely but as a nation it stinks of hypocrisy, double standards and over inflated egos. The sad thing is that failure (as a nation or otherwise) to recognise one's faults and criticise oneself means that one will likely never change or improve on said faults. In other words, things like the penal system stay as they are because people don't question them, refusing to believe their country can be doing things wrong. Having said that, isn't it the states rather than the nations imposing those particular sorts of rules? For example, some states approve the death penalty and others don't. |
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Post by medibot on May 24, 2011 22:29:45 GMT
Yeah, it's state based but then you could argue that the government could still interfere and effectively say "you're doing it wrong" and enforce change.
They won't though because killing people and locking them up in shitholes is an easy way out of actually solving problems.
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Post by thevicar on May 25, 2011 17:10:58 GMT
Coming late to this, and apologies for doing this (but it does wee wee me off):
Stereotyping yanks = bad. Stereotyping religious belief in same paragraph? I'm more than happy to argue the toss about my religious beliefs without getting angry or shouty (so long as I'm not drunk) with pretty much anyone. Doesn't mean I will change my belief structure though.
Yes there are a lot of things america / americans have arsed up throughout their relatively short existence as a nation but they've still managed some pretty impressive achievements and have had a reasonable amount to gloat about for the last 30 odd years. Obviously the last couple of generations growing up in a bi polar system where america was the ultimate guarantor of the free world might have had an impact on their outlook. I've certainly noticed a change in my yank friends compared to their parents generation - some have becopme worse (we're the only superpower becuase of manifest destiny) others have improved. I suspect that their nation will have interesting times during the next 30/40 years as the world goes back to having multiple great powers and that the next generation will be different again (heck some of this generation have even learnt a little geography).
Going back to the original stuff about celebrating the death of evil terrorist #1, I ashamed to admit there are a few people who I'd probably celebrate should they meet the grisly fate I think they deserve. Not a good thing mind, but I understand why people who have been force fed the idea that OBL is the greatest threat to them and their lives that they will ever experience might respond in the way they did. This is probably a function of the sort of crap they got fed for the last almost decade by their various media organs and the much higher cost in lives (and cash) that America has paid over the last decade in an attempt to control the country that was OBLs base of operations. Doesn't make it right, but it does make it understandable.
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Post by ambersalamander on May 26, 2011 17:39:39 GMT
Sorry Vicar, I phrased that badly. I wasn't stereotyping religious beliefs, I was making an analogy for the zeal with which some of our trans-Atlantic cousins unquestioningly uphold the perceived virtues of their homeland. I meant that their "patriotism" is almost religious in its nature, not that all religion is like this (i.e. unquestioningly doing/believing just because you're told or brought up to).
And no, it isn't just Americans: that's just the most obvious to me because there are so many of them and it's such a powerful country with a consequently loud collective voice. You're absolutely right to highlight the USA's great achievements.
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) and said American got up and stormed away from the table rather than hear British people (politely) offer their critical opinions on her country's policies.