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Post by coops on Sept 7, 2007 11:57:46 GMT
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Post by medibot on Sept 7, 2007 12:16:52 GMT
The tide does appear to be turning against them somewhat now too. Whether this is because it's a good way to keep the story going and sell papers or because they are actually not as innocent as they'd like us to think is the interesting bit
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Post by ambersalamander on Sept 7, 2007 13:06:32 GMT
I didn't think she'd finished off Pavarotti though! What a story!
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Post by malxscfc on Sept 9, 2007 22:55:24 GMT
IMHO. We are all appallingly cynical these days, especially when matters appear in the Media. What on earth could make us even suspect that the girl's Mother - a practitioner of Medecine who took the Hippocratic Oath - could be guilty of taking her daughter's life, and then creating the world's biggest ever media smokescreen? Bizarre, but that's what's happened. The reality is this: Some unknown person abducted the kid. That's all. Sadly, the poor little mite is likely to be dead now, though I can't bring myself to think of what her fate was in the run-up to her end... and the McCann parents have a whole lifetime of hell and regret as their reward for a 30-minute period of peace and quiet on holiday, especially in spite of their enormous efforts to do the best they could for their first child..... The real jokers are the Portuguese Police, who have been criminally incompetent all along. They failed to do proper forensics (clearly) in the apartment. They had egg on their face after a few weeks when this Robert Murat bloke was first accused - when in reality he was probably a do-gooder neighbour .
Then after numerous false trails around Europe led nowhere, the Portuguese Police were running out of ideas and money, and just wanted an end to the whole thing. First they accused the British Lab of confusing the forensic reports, then they played their joker, and turned it all on the Mother, for want of any other ideas....
As a result the McCanns are severely tainted, and no one will ever really believe them completely, since mud sticks. And no one's any the wiser about Madeleine. (I expect a retired journalist living on the Algarve will make a study of the case for a few years or so, and {literally? } unearth the truth in a decade or two.)
At least the Press sold a load of copies on the back of it, in a dull summer with a weak Big Brother on the box, I suppose, but no one will learn anything from this.
The one thing they need to implement, but never will, is an instant "Child Abduction" alert. This should happen in every European country affected, and mean that every single media channel is INSTANTLY alerted to an occurrence, and the programming interrupted to cover it.
This is the only effective way to save abducted little bundles of joy (as they're usually small and weak, and can be secreted all too easily), since everyone will take part in it. Child abuse is still about the only taboo left in Society. And if the child isn't found within about 8 hours, statistically it's almost hopeless afterwards...
This theoretical system was discussed about 10 years ago, and still holds water. Sadly, we just don't seem to learn though.........
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Post by medibot on Sept 10, 2007 0:52:08 GMT
To be honest, the main thing with this is the fact that one of their dinner date mates saw a bloke wandering along through the hotel with a sleeping child in pink pyjamas in his arms when they were off checking their children or something and nobody else saw this man.
That's either your answer and the person to look for or somebody is lying their arse off.
Surely if there was anybody else in the hotel who was carrying their kid around on that night they'd have said. As it seems nobody has claimed to be this person, surely there's the person to be looking for and they should be speaking to the person who saw him and working out where the man with the mystery child is/who they are etc
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Post by coops on Sept 10, 2007 9:37:37 GMT
What on earth could make us even suspect that the girl's Mother - a practitioner of Medecine who took the Hippocratic Oath - could be guilty of taking her daughter's life, and then creating the world's biggest ever media smokescreen? So being a doctor absolves one of all suspicion then? That might not be a comfort to a lot of families living near a certain Dr. Shipman's last surgery.
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Post by Col ISIHAC. on Sept 10, 2007 14:37:47 GMT
One might also consider a somewhat outmoded, yet effective form of deterrent; known as "Hiring A Babysitter" Malx. Many reputable holiday resorts offer staff either to sit, or monitor. I can't actually reconcile the world tour, grief, constant media attention, prayer vigils (yeah! Like that'll work flashy website and £1m+ "Campaign fund" with parents who feel it appropriate to go out for a meal with friends and leave three kids under the age of five, to all intents, unattended. Call me a cynic if you like, but at the first hint of their being some form of parental responsibility or accountability, they run home!
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samd
Steaming Bovril
Posts: 327
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Post by samd on Sept 10, 2007 15:08:32 GMT
and the McCann parents have a whole lifetime of hell and regret as their reward for a 30-minute period of peace and quiet on holiday
Jesus Christ man, they left their kinds on their own so they could have their 30 minutes of peace and quiet. You know if you have kids then you don't have the right to just forget about them when it suits.
Am I the only one who think it's more then just a coincidence that when the police start questioning the Mother the McCanns suddenly go back home?
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Post by malxscfc on Sept 10, 2007 21:18:42 GMT
What on earth could make us even suspect that the girl's Mother - a practitioner of Medecine who took the Hippocratic Oath - could be guilty of taking her daughter's life, and then creating the world's biggest ever media smokescreen? So being a doctor absolves one of all suspicion then? That might not be a comfort to a lot of families living near a certain Dr. Shipman's last surgery. She's her Mother though. She'd gone through IVF to get a child. I know Shipman has sullied the Profession forever, all for the sake of (filthy) lucre, but a woman doesn't go through IVF for the fun of it.... Least of all someone who actually knows what an ordeal it can be.
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Post by malxscfc on Sept 10, 2007 21:44:02 GMT
One might also consider a somewhat outmoded, yet effective form of deterrent; known as "Hiring A Babysitter" Malx. Many reputable holiday resorts offer staff either to sit, or monitor. I can't actually reconcile the world tour, grief, constant media attention, prayer vigils (yeah! Like that'll work flashy website and £1m+ "Campaign fund" with parents who feel it appropriate to go out for a meal with friends and leave three kids under the age of five, to all intents, unattended. Call me a cynic if you like, but at the first hint of their being some form of parental responsibility or accountability, they run home! I see where you're coming from, but would you entrust 3 small kids to some unknown babysitter from a resort hotel? The Child protection procedure is flawed enough in this country - goodness knows what it's like in a small country which only entered the 20th century after joining the EU... [The irony of the sitter-less outcome is not lost on me. ] Sure, I loathe all the hysterical overblown pseudo-religious overtones pervading the whole affair, but I seriously doubt that was the McCanns' intention - merely to do the very best for their kid by getting blanket media coverage of her plight. I'd do my very best too, as I'm sure you would. And as I said earlier, it's Press-Coverage which is your best hope in child abduction cases. [Or CCTV...] 'Blame + hindsight' is shooting fish in a barrel. Every road passenger ever killed is a victim of blame. But do we ever learn? Not that I do it myself, oddly enough even the most sceptical scientist would have to concur that prayer can work. It may simply be because it's a collective hug, or a focus of resources, but empirically it can be proven that it helps the percentages... As for quitting the place, well, they had to eventually, surely? They have lives and livings to pursue in England - and hopefully their other 2 kids do. I think I'd have to leave if I was treated like they have been recently. Sure they're not celebs or VIPs, but to have to leave the country in the almost certain knowledge that they're leaving any hopes of seeing their daughter again must have been one tough decision. Glad I didn't get stuck with that damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't dilemma... And yes, of course there was Maddie's DNA in the Hire Car. DNA is very certain in proof, but is known by Police as "mobile evidence". If your 4 year old disappeared today, of course her DNA would remain everywhere. Her hair, her skin follicles, her saliva, the sticking plaster from when she fell over in the rock pool while chasing that crab.... When you approach the atomic level, you're talking near-infinite quantities of particles. While reading this, it's odds-on that you inhaled an atom which Julius Caesar exhaled in his terminal breath. [Cue the "Infamy, infamy..." gag! ;D] I'm not asking for an emotional argument on the subject. Really. I just think it's a cracking example of a sordid human tragedy wrapped in a near-impenetrable layer of media manipulation.
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Post by ojiveojive on Sept 11, 2007 8:57:54 GMT
And yes, of course there was Maddie's DNA in the Hire Car.
But wasn't this the car that was hired twenty-five days after her disappearance?
Whether the McCanns were involved or not the events, whatever they were, could not possibly have occured had they not left the children alone. I have three daughters and I can honestly say that they have never been left alone at home or abroad. We have always taken them with us when we've been going out for a meal on holiday and as one of my daughters has severe learning disabilities, on the very few occasions in the last eighteen and a half years that my wife and I have been out on our own together, we have had a trusted member of the family, who is able to communicate with our daughter, come over to sit. This is not me being 'holier than thou', but common bloody sense. You do not leave children alone for any reason.
In my opinion, there are only two people responsible for the events of that night and the least they should have been charged with is child neglect, if that appears harsh, so be it.
As an addendum, I have a friend 'in the business' who, from the very beginning of this saga, suggested that he knew of several doctors that had given their young children a sedative in order to have a few hours of freedom and he felt that this might well be one of those cases that could have resulted in a tragic accident.
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Post by ambersalamander on Sept 11, 2007 14:52:44 GMT
I've heard that little rumour too. Malx, I wouldn't suspect for one second that the McCanns killed their daughter deliberately, but it is POSSIBLE that there was some kind of accident. They probably could have covered it up somehow, before the alarm was even raised. As for the DNA- well, reports say it hadn't come off an object but straight from the body. But I'd like to know how they know that. Her famous cuddly toy, for example, is likely to be covered in hairs, skin flakes, saliva, tears and who knows what else. The hire car would presumably have contained her clothes, the ones she'd been wearing while on holiday. These too would be covered in DNA traces. And hair like hers gets everywhere.
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Post by malxscfc on Sept 11, 2007 15:01:32 GMT
Just to 'kill' the DNA thing.... For Madeleine's DNA to NOT be on Mum or Dad, or siblings, or clothes, or in her Mum's watch strap, or her Dad's wallet, or her sister's belly-button, or her brother's teddy bear 24 days later would be almost a statistical impossibility. Henry the Eighth's DNA could certainly be found at Hampton Court today. I suspect if you knew what to look for, you could also find some of it on the doormat of the HMV Store in Piccadilly tomorrow. [It's purely a personal opinion - and no doubt if someone were daft enough to marry me it's an opinion I would be bullied into "correcting" - but it's my belief that a child also has a right to a certain amount of solitude too, when no one but they and their imaginary friends are present. Adults can be overly cloying, binding, proscribing, didactic and stultifying. That's all.] Regarding the sedative, I don't think they should have been giving Calpol to Maddie either - it's chock full of E numbers which oughtn't be fed to kids at all. But I still think this widespread histrionic Politically Correct response from habitually rational middle-class parents everywhere ("Won't somebody think of the CHILDREN"-stylee! ;D) shows a distinct lack of a grasp of probability, and more worryingly, a total lack of compassion. Should we be transferring this "serves them right" mentality to other politically incorrect forms of behaviour too? Like when a smoker contracts lung cancer, or when a fat person has a heart attack? "Well, it serves them right!!" What about the driver of a 4X4 having a fatal crash? Does that also "serve them right" for driving a gas-guzzling, Chelsea Tractor? What about the pedestrian on the pavement mown down in the above (Chelsea Tractor) accident. Serves them right for not being in a nice safe car instead, shirley? They should have had a better job. They should have worked harder at School to get more qualifications, to get a job which paid more money. Serves them right then!
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Post by ambersalamander on Sept 11, 2007 15:16:20 GMT
If Madeleine was indeed abducted, then I would never even think "serves them right." The loss of one's child can never serve anyone right for anything. If I had children, it would probably be my worst fear. However, although I do agree with you that children are entitled to solitude and privacy, I personally would not extend this to leaving them alone in a foreign country full of strangers. Yes, they were in a "safe" apartment building, yes the parents were nearby, but still, I would want to be in the same building at least. Just my personal opinion. And I'm not going to accuse the McCanns of using sedatives, partly because I don't know where that rumour came from, but I find it a little odd that they were confident to leave an almost-four-year-old alone in a building without expecting that she might wake up, find Mummy and Daddy missing, and leave the safety of the apartment to look for them...? If I were that age and woke up to find my parents missing, then I would certainly have gone to find them. I wonder why they didn't think she would.
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Post by coops on Sept 11, 2007 15:25:34 GMT
[It's purely a personal opinion - and no doubt if someone were daft enough to marry me it's an opinion I would be bullied into "correcting" - but it's my belief that a child also has a right to a certain amount of solitude too, when no one but they and their imaginary friends are present. Adults can be overly cloying, binding, proscribing, didactic and stultifying. That's all.] My child was allowed plenty of solitude and free-play time, but we were never out of earshot (those intercom things are great, in fact there is nothing better than hearing a 2 year-old burbling away happily thinking it was just him and his Tellytubby, we spent hours doing it!) and we were NEVER EVER in the pub, out of earshot and eyeline with our sedated child at the mercy of whatever could have befell him in between the times that we or one of our pals could be arsed to pop over and make sure he still knocked out and not spoiling our precious night out. Children are a commitment, if you can't absolutely, 100% fulfill that commitment to them then don't have them.
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